Author Topic: Future  (Read 256111 times)

Alex

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Future
« on: August 03, 2011, 10:54:05 PM »
Hello everyone

So, so sorry for all the radio silence. I'm back on it now. As Rudolf posted in another thread, we've been approved for the USA on PSN, and are this >|< close to the EU one too. Now is the time to look to the future.

What we want to do is release the new version on PC and Mac and Linux. That'll take some time as we have to rewrite the interface to support mice.

The main problem with this though is modding and compatibility. The game has more features and is nicer and more polished than the current version, but it is less moddable by default because C# has a really good reflection system that really helps the Lua stuff. In C++ we have to do it all by hand and so the functionality for Lua has been reduced only to that which we needed to make the game work. Also the change of language has meant that many parts of Lua levels have to be changed syntax-wise (not a problem but it means that levels won't work out of the box as it were). Many of the user-made levels won't work even after this due to the lack of support for Lua commands.

Obviously this isn't a good thing as I don't want to blow up this community and lose what's been built over all this time. So in order to preserve that, and make it so I don't have to spend the rest of my days adding mod features for the game as they turn up, I am thinking of taking the existing C# version, stripping out the music and levels, and leaving it as a free download version that can only run user-made levels. I am additionally considering opening the source to the game, although that is quite a scary thought esp. for Linux.

Anyway I wondered what you guys think as this is all heavily based on speculation and it would be great to get some real opinions.

Aino

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Re: Future
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2011, 11:04:34 PM »
Open Source would be great for me, cause I wanna see how to build your own game in C# >.<

But it all sounds great, we can still play the maps we've made and play the new one :D

Alex

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Re: Future
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2011, 11:07:26 PM »
The Wuwei framework that the game's based on might not be opened, it depends on other people.

annikk.exe

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Re: Future
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2011, 11:44:24 PM »
Hi Alex, congratulations on the approval :>  I'm surprised you're not taking a holiday now!

With regard to custom levels.  I have always suspected that custom levels would not work with the new version.

My feeling is that for our work to be worth anything at all, you have to be able to play the levels in the main game - the one that everyone will be buying.  If custom levels only work with an "enthusiast" version of Eufloria it will mean our levels get downloaded less.

I would ideally like to have as big an audience as possible for levels.  So I would personally prefer if it was still possible to write levels for the main game.  Even if the number of commands we can use is severely limited, I'd still prefer it I think, especially if you will eventually add some of the most powerful commands to the new version.

At the end of the day, the community has taught itself how to program in Lua.  If we are given a new/different set of tools, even though there are less tools than previously, we'll figure it out and make awesome stuff.  :>  That way we are also generating more content for the actual game, adding value to it..

So yes.  I'd rather work with the new version and all its shortcomings, if that's possible... :>

./textwall

annikk.exe

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Re: Future
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2011, 01:53:52 AM »
Ok, actually... I have a few questions about modding in the new version...

Will it be possible to make custom levels in the new version?  (however basic they may be)
Will levels still be written in lua?
Can you give some examples of commands that are unlikely to be supported?  Will DrawSprite still work?  What about Asteroid:MoveTo and MoveBy?
Though you did say you don't want to spend the rest of your days adding modding features, do you have any plans to eventually add commands that level designers can use?  Or is that it - what comes in the final release is all we'll ever have?


Just to reiterate that I want to make levels for the latest version of Eufloria, pretty much regardless of any restrictions.  The open source idea sounds cool but I am mainly interested in making levels for the version of the game that will be played by thousands of people.  :>

Alex

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Re: Future
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2011, 02:17:32 AM »
Ok, actually... I have a few questions about modding in the new version...

Will it be possible to make custom levels in the new version?  (however basic they may be)
Will levels still be written in lua?
Can you give some examples of commands that are unlikely to be supported?  Will DrawSprite still work?  What about Asteroid:MoveTo and MoveBy?
Though you did say you don't want to spend the rest of your days adding modding features, do you have any plans to eventually add commands that level designers can use?  Or is that it - what comes in the final release is all we'll ever have?


Just to reiterate that I want to make levels for the latest version of Eufloria, pretty much regardless of any restrictions.  The open source idea sounds cool but I am mainly interested in making levels for the version of the game that will be played by thousands of people.  :>


> Will it be possible to make custom levels in the new version?  (however basic they may be)
Yes.
> Will levels still be written in lua?
Yep.
> Can you give some examples of commands that are unlikely to be supported?  Will DrawSprite still work?  What about Asteroid:MoveTo and MoveBy?
Currently anything that's in the basic campaign works. Pretty much everything else is unsupported. Whether or not things end up being supported is up for discussion as it will take time to do that (bear in mind that it would also take some time to clean up, strip down and release Eufloria Classic or whatever it would end up being called).
> Though you did say you don't want to spend the rest of your days adding modding features, do you have any plans to eventually add commands that level designers can use?  Or is that it - what comes in the final release is all we'll ever have?
No, the game will doubtless need patch after bloody patch to support people who have esoteric or even common hardware configurations and fix bugs. Extra features could get worked into these patches. I am happy to come back and add features, but I don't want to be doing it to the point where I'm, say, spending a day a week on it. I wanted to get the game roughly to the point where all existing levels would run (if not by simply loading them, then by modifying the syntax appropriately).

My thinking was that there's a lot of stuff people want to do that I'd never have time to do. And if the game were modifiable in a more open sense (i.e. source code available) then people could do that independently of me. Additionally there's an existing version of the game in which all these levels currently work.

I totally see your point about working in the current version and actually I think that's a really important issue both for you guys and for us. In the long term it will probably be better to have a reasonably modifiable version out and ditch the idea of the free classic version.

Pilchard123

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Re: Future
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2011, 02:41:26 AM »
How about keeping the moddable version as a free download (possibly only for those that have bought the game), until either a set time runs out or you have copied all/most of the Lua commands to the new one.

Y'know, I'm fairly sure that we'd write the bindings if you gave us a rough guide to how to do them - I'm almost certain that I would. This community has plenty of people with too much time on their hands a love for this game and who would be willing to help.

annikk.exe

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Re: Future
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2011, 03:08:16 AM »
Quote
> Will it be possible to make custom levels in the new version?  (however basic they may be)
Yes.
> Will levels still be written in lua?
Yep.

w00t !


Quote
> Can you give some examples of commands that are unlikely to be supported?  Will DrawSprite still work?  What about Asteroid:MoveTo and MoveBy?
Currently anything that's in the basic campaign works. Pretty much everything else is unsupported. Whether or not things end up being supported is up for discussion as it will take time to do that (bear in mind that it would also take some time to clean up, strip down and release Eufloria Classic or whatever it would end up being called).

I'm totally stoked that you're up for discussing what gets implemented.  :> I am of course eager to get started!  When/where should this discussion take place?  Would it be helpful if we level designers create a prioritised list of things we most want implemented, so that you can see easily what people are trying to do?  Is there anything else we can do to help?

Though I shall greatly look forward to the patches, I will also begin creating content the moment the new version is released.  I will aim to have a new level out the same day the new version of the game is released on PC.  :>


Quote
> Though you did say you don't want to spend the rest of your days adding modding features, do you have any plans to eventually add commands that level designers can use?  Or is that it - what comes in the final release is all we'll ever have?
No, the game will doubtless need patch after bloody patch to support people who have esoteric or even common hardware configurations and fix bugs. Extra features could get worked into these patches. I am happy to come back and add features, but I don't want to be doing it to the point where I'm, say, spending a day a week on it. I wanted to get the game roughly to the point where all existing levels would run (if not by simply loading them, then by modifying the syntax appropriately).

I am totally fine with modifying old levels and engines to fit whatever the new syntax is.  :>  When you say you want to get to the point where all existing levels would run, do you mean all the existing levels that have been created by the level designers, or the levels for the original game?

Quote
My thinking was that there's a lot of stuff people want to do that I'd never have time to do. And if the game were modifiable in a more open sense (i.e. source code available) then people could do that independently of me. Additionally there's an existing version of the game in which all these levels currently work.

The thing is, that would involve splitting your time between two Eufloria projects instead of just focusing on one.  Sure, there are restrictions with what we can do, and it might be possible to change those things if it were open source.... but who would change the code?  Who would play the resulting maps?   I guess I'm just skeptical about how much an open source version would be advertised, downloaded, and played.  It's not as exciting an arena to work in if it's not actively being played by thousands of people all over the world..
For me, coding is only half the pleasure... the other half is seeing the download counter tick up, and reading the feedback from people who have played it.  People are much more likely to play the latest and greatest version, so that is where I want to be.  :>

Besides, there really haven't been that many requests for new commands.  Some of the previous requests are no longer relevant because we have found workarounds for them, or discovered undocumented commands that have the functionality we were looking for.  Personally, when I ask about the existence (or not) of a particular command, I am just asking because I am curious if it exists... it's not intended to be read as "implement this command for me!".  The only unfulfilled request I can remember is for the ability to draw sprites behind asteroids as well as in front of them, but that's hardly a huge issue because there is a workaround for it (albeit an inefficient one).


Quote
I totally see your point about working in the current version and actually I think that's a really important issue both for you guys and for us. In the long term it will probably be better to have a reasonably modifiable version out and ditch the idea of the free classic version.

I hope you decide to do this.. :>  I think it's the best option for us Level Designers, for you guys, and for the people that play the game.  I love the look of the new version, it's totally stunning and I can't wait to play it.  :>  heh, I'm totally bubbling over with enthusiasm right now... though I'm conscious of not wanting to crowd you after your epic coding session over these past months.

Pilchard123

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Re: Future
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2011, 03:23:40 AM »
This looks like a fairly good binding thing, and it seems fairly simple to implement, too. It also looks a lot easier to use than the stuff you posted a while back.

http://code.google.com/p/slb/


http://code.google.com/p/slb/source/browse/SLB_101.wiki?repo=wiki
http://code.google.com/p/slb/source/browse/examples/

EDIT: I don't think the levels would need rewriting after all.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 03:31:59 AM by Pilchard123 »

Aino

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Re: Future
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2011, 03:27:09 AM »
I hope it's not hard to add features D:

If it is, it must be like slavery for you, unless you wanna add it yourself :P

Maybe we can make a list over functions that won't be able to be used, so we see what we loses, and probably it can be added one by one later(Alex told that mostly the things in  the campaign will work, but is the campaign exactly the same + some features?) :)
(or is that idea just dumb?)

Alex

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Re: Future
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2011, 04:43:06 AM »
Pilchard123: we are using LuaBind which (like all binding libs) requires you to specify the functions you want to expose to Lua (i.e. you can't just give it the assembly and say "go crazy"). Adding bindings is a matter of changing some headers and recompiling the game and doing a release, so it's not something that can be done by players. That's the problem.

Quote
> Can you give some examples of commands that are unlikely to be supported?  Will DrawSprite still work?  What about Asteroid:MoveTo and MoveBy?
Currently anything that's in the basic campaign works. Pretty much everything else is unsupported. Whether or not things end up being supported is up for discussion as it will take time to do that (bear in mind that it would also take some time to clean up, strip down and release Eufloria Classic or whatever it would end up being called).

I'm totally stoked that you're up for discussing what gets implemented.  :> I am of course eager to get started!  When/where should this discussion take place?  Would it be helpful if we level designers create a prioritised list of things we most want implemented, so that you can see easily what people are trying to do?  Is there anything else we can do to help?

Though I shall greatly look forward to the patches, I will also begin creating content the moment the new version is released.  I will aim to have a new level out the same day the new version of the game is released on PC.  :>
We can start discussing it here, but what I meant was that as of this moment there is nothing supported beyond the absolute basics of placing asteroids and seedlings and trees, and adding support for the rest will take time - very little time in some cases but maybe a lot in others. Therefore a list of what's needed kind of exists in the existing set of user-made levels. Once all of that is working it would be time to look at new stuff.

Quote
> Though you did say you don't want to spend the rest of your days adding modding features, do you have any plans to eventually add commands that level designers can use?  Or is that it - what comes in the final release is all we'll ever have?
No, the game will doubtless need patch after bloody patch to support people who have esoteric or even common hardware configurations and fix bugs. Extra features could get worked into these patches. I am happy to come back and add features, but I don't want to be doing it to the point where I'm, say, spending a day a week on it. I wanted to get the game roughly to the point where all existing levels would run (if not by simply loading them, then by modifying the syntax appropriately).

I am totally fine with modifying old levels and engines to fit whatever the new syntax is.  :>  When you say you want to get to the point where all existing levels would run, do you mean all the existing levels that have been created by the level designers, or the levels for the original game?

Most of the editing required amounts to several find and replace passes. I want to get it so that most of the user levels in existence today work to some degree. Probably some of your own more esoteric creations would have trouble but by and large I want stuff to be working.

Quote
My thinking was that there's a lot of stuff people want to do that I'd never have time to do. And if the game were modifiable in a more open sense (i.e. source code available) then people could do that independently of me. Additionally there's an existing version of the game in which all these levels currently work.

The thing is, that would involve splitting your time between two Eufloria projects instead of just focusing on one.  Sure, there are restrictions with what we can do, and it might be possible to change those things if it were open source.... but who would change the code?  Who would play the resulting maps?   I guess I'm just skeptical about how much an open source version would be advertised, downloaded, and played.  It's not as exciting an arena to work in if it's not actively being played by thousands of people all over the world..
For me, coding is only half the pleasure... the other half is seeing the download counter tick up, and reading the feedback from people who have played it.  People are much more likely to play the latest and greatest version, so that is where I want to be.  :>

Besides, there really haven't been that many requests for new commands.  Some of the previous requests are no longer relevant because we have found workarounds for them, or discovered undocumented commands that have the functionality we were looking for.  Personally, when I ask about the existence (or not) of a particular command, I am just asking because I am curious if it exists... it's not intended to be read as "implement this command for me!".  The only unfulfilled request I can remember is for the ability to draw sprites behind asteroids as well as in front of them, but that's hardly a huge issue because there is a workaround for it (albeit an inefficient one).
All fine

Quote
I totally see your point about working in the current version and actually I think that's a really important issue both for you guys and for us. In the long term it will probably be better to have a reasonably modifiable version out and ditch the idea of the free classic version.

I hope you decide to do this.. :>  I think it's the best option for us Level Designers, for you guys, and for the people that play the game.  I love the look of the new version, it's totally stunning and I can't wait to play it.  :>  heh, I'm totally bubbling over with enthusiasm right now... though I'm conscious of not wanting to crowd you after your epic coding session over these past months.
Thanks. It's been a long year but it's been worth it so far :)

Pilchard123

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Re: Future
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2011, 04:59:49 AM »
I realise that the source would need to be compiled, I just thought that if you were to supply a list of some sort - what functions are called, what parameters they take, etc - we could work on producing some of the raw source, which you could then copy over and compile without having to write it yourself. Yes, there may be some tweaking nneded, but it could cut your workload some.

Aino

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Re: Future
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 05:17:58 AM »
I wonder if the custom AIs work in the new version...

Pilchard123

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Re: Future
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2011, 05:20:42 AM »
I doubt it, Alex pretty much said they wouldn't. Not for a time, at least.

Aino

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Re: Future
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 05:23:12 AM »
But the AI's contain(atleast mine) the stuff that is in the Campaign :D

So i guess it'll work o.O


Was wrong, i don't think Position.x/y comes with the update D:

Nor will GraceTimer I guess :S

Pilchard123

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Re: Future
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2011, 05:28:06 AM »
Is there an AI-specific gracetimer? Like GetEmpire().GraceTimer?

annikk.exe

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Re: Future
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2011, 05:30:14 AM »
No, but there is an asteroid-specific grace timer.  So you can work around it.  :>
(I'm talking about the "old" version of Eufloria obviously)

Code: [Select]
GetAsteroid(0).GraceTimer = 500
I think that's how it's done..

Pilchard123

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Re: Future
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2011, 05:34:16 AM »
Yeah, that's what I thought it was, but wondered if there was an empire-wide one.

Alex

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Re: Future
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2011, 05:09:54 PM »
Yeah there's a grace timer per empire as well, although I think the asteroid ones override it.

I realise that the source would need to be compiled, I just thought that if you were to supply a list of some sort - what functions are called, what parameters they take, etc - we could work on producing some of the raw source, which you could then copy over and compile without having to write it yourself. Yes, there may be some tweaking nneded, but it could cut your workload some.
Ah, I wouldn't be releasing source for the new C++ version, only for the C# version (which doesn't need bindings that bring it up to date anyway, only new ones).

Pilchard123

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Re: Future
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2011, 02:11:02 AM »
You may just find this annoying, my harping on about this, but I reckon I could work out something useful even without the source. Tell me to shut up if you want me to.

Would the following be something like the GetAsteroid() binding, assuming the class/namespace (I think namespace, but not sure) that GetAsteroid() is in is called eufloriagame.

Code: [Select]

module(L)
[
    def("GetAsteroid", &eufloriagame::GetAsteroid)
];



Mihhaelo

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Re: Future
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2011, 05:42:22 AM »
Personally I'd rather you didn't realise any version as open source, as to some extent that would split the community.

Aino

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Re: Future
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2011, 05:53:37 AM »
Mhm, ye :/

Don't release any source code :P

Alex

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Re: Future
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2011, 12:42:45 AM »
You may just find this annoying, my harping on about this, but I reckon I could work out something useful even without the source. Tell me to shut up if you want me to.

Would the following be something like the GetAsteroid() binding, assuming the class/namespace (I think namespace, but not sure) that GetAsteroid() is in is called eufloriagame.

Code: [Select]

module(L)
[
    def("GetAsteroid", &eufloriagame::GetAsteroid)
];



Yeah that's the kind of thing :)

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Re: Future
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2011, 09:08:45 PM »
so will it be harder to make ouw own levels now ? :( with this new version :(

Aino

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Re: Future
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2011, 09:12:50 PM »
No, we'll just be sent back to the basics...

annikk.exe

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Re: Future
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2011, 11:42:45 PM »
As Aino says, we will only be able to use very basic commands.  However Alex has said he intends to add back in all the commands that have been used in user-generated levels to date.... though that will not happen right away.

There will also be some syntax changes that we will have to get used to, but that shouldn't be a big deal.  :>

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Re: Future
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2011, 05:28:29 AM »
kay , so what was the plus side of this whole thing then ? :(
or the reason :p

Bonobo

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Re: Future
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2011, 08:55:46 AM »
Uhm, new features? Less old bugs (and more new ones ;D), perhaps faster … and I assume we’ll be “allowed” to keep our old versions, so there’s no reason to weep, BC ;)

I for one pine for the iOS and OS X versions, so I can forget about this dreaded Windows for one and all times :D

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Re: Future
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2011, 09:12:40 AM »
the new features and less (or more:P) bugs is coz its written in diferent languae ? :P

and yes ofcourse we can keep our old versions :D
but as anik also said people are gonna be playing the newer version not the old one :P

Aino

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Re: Future
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2011, 09:46:44 PM »
Annikk can't read minds you know, I might (often) jump back to the old version(as it will be when the new one comes) fairly often, but making maps with the new one will be alot of fun. Reason for fun you ask? I've seen lots of highly advanced maps, like Annikks "lazor" map and alot of others, some not released and some released. But this makes it alittle boring and way OT about how Eufloria is supposed to be played. You might disagree with me, but thats what I mean :)

annikk.exe

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Re: Future
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2011, 02:51:42 AM »
kay , so what was the plus side of this whole thing then ? :(
or the reason :p


The current/old version of Eufloria will not run on Sony's platforms/hardware.  The new version will.  This means it can be distributed on the Playstation Network, opening up Eufloria to hundreds of thousands of new players.
That means a bigger audience for us level designers, apart from anything else.

Also the new version looks prettier and has more features.  I am convinced moving to the latest version is the right thing for us to do.

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Re: Future
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2011, 03:34:35 AM »
Wait, "Sony's System/Hardware"?

You must mean Microsoft or something, 'cause Playstation is made by Sony, unless IDK what I'm talking 'bout :P

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Re: Future
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2011, 04:48:09 AM »
No, I mean Sony.  Sony make the Sony Playstation.  Sony maintain the Playstation Network.  It's all Sony.  :>  Nothing to do with Microsoft.

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Re: Future
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2011, 04:49:11 AM »
The PS3 wouldn't run a game written in C#, but would run one written in C++. Since Eufloria is currently C#, A and/or R had to rewrite it to get is on PSN.

EDIT: However, C# is (I think) M$-designed and built, so...

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Re: Future
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2011, 04:53:54 AM »
But C# is Microsoft creation, thats why it mainly isn't compitable with Mac and other OS'...

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Re: Future
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2011, 04:56:25 AM »
So, it is something to do with Microsoft. Confused yet?

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Re: Future
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2011, 05:04:42 AM »
Me? If so, nah...

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Re: Future
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2011, 05:25:12 AM »
Sony require it to be written in C#.  Why, you ask?  I haven't the slightest idea. :>  Most probably because that is what they use for everything else, and they want to keep it all standardised.

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Re: Future
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2011, 05:41:16 AM »
Annikk, don't roll your head upside down now, if they require C#, they wouldn't need to rewrite it :)

And C++ is mostly reccomended for making games, because it has raw power to use(if you do a while loop without a stop, it does 1 million ticks a second!(don't know if that explains power...)) and most programmers favour it too. Mostly because it is multi-compatible(meaning it can run on more than one type of OS) including, I guess, PS3 and Sony products. But I just guess you made a typing mistake or your head was rolling a little :P

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Re: Future
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2011, 06:00:16 AM »
I can't explain why Sony made the decision to use C#, but Alex has previously said they needed to convert the game from C++ to C# for it to go on the PSN.

Not sure what you mean by head rolling - it sounds like you are the one that is confused.

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Re: Future
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2011, 06:16:24 AM »
I can't explain why Sony made the decision to use C#, but Alex has previously said they needed to convert the game from C++ to C# for it to go on the PSN.

Not sure what you mean by head rolling - it sounds like you are the one that is confused.

The game is coded in C# right now they want to convert it too c++ i guess not the other way around

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Re: Future
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2011, 06:38:48 AM »
But then, why can't PS3/PSN be compatible with C# as Sony has made the decision to use it. I don't think there is much more to say than put that question on the table...

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Re: Future
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2011, 04:02:57 PM »
Do I have it the wrong way around?  Meh, fair dos.

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Re: Future
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2011, 06:26:27 PM »
I guess so... It'll seem weird to have to shift from C# to C++ for nothing really, except for other people with other OS' than Windows ofc :P

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Re: Future
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2011, 02:52:30 AM »
But this makes it alittle boring and way OT about how Eufloria is supposed to be played. You might disagree with me, but thats what I mean :)

wow, wise words, never looked at it that way :P

That means a bigger audience for us level designers, apart from anything else.

lawl xD

I guess so... It'll seem weird to have to shift from C# to C++ for nothing really, except for other people with other OS' than Windows ofc :P
yeh :/ :P
btw, isnt it only for the PS ? isn't the PS version different from the computer version, in other words, isn't the thing being made for sony for the PSN already something they have to rewrite anyway ? :P

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Re: Future
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2011, 04:50:33 AM »
They'll release the game in C++ on the computer too, this might be so you don't need to work on two codes at once in two different languages...

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Re: Future
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2011, 10:15:06 PM »
Read the latest news on the Eufloria blog: http://www.eufloria-game.com/blog/?p=390 (changed from link to blog to permalink to blog entry
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 10:21:00 PM by Bonobo »

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Re: Future
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2011, 11:11:06 PM »
Hmm, I wanna know which functions will exist in the new version, so I can make a series of maps so people can play 'em right after DL.

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Re: Future
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2011, 11:17:09 PM »
So, what I've seen in the PSN trailer so far...
http://us.playstation.com/games-and-media/games/eufloria-ps3.html

Different colouring/style of seedlings. New unit?  0:09
Dual - spiked defense trees?   0:23
What looks to be a flower tree, though the flowers are coloured red, yellow and blue. Strength, Energy and Speed. 0:25
New unit? Looks like something out of FLoW   0:40
Fancier graphics throughout

Screenies
01 - New seedling style/unit
02 - Buttons by menu bar. Likely corresponds to buttons on PS3 controller. I don't recognise the icons, though this could just be part of a new/updated art style.
02 - Dial on asteroid. Likely corresponds to the drag circle for seedling selection on PC.
03 - Nothing, really
04 - Multi-winged, streamlined seedlings. The streamlining may be the result of high STR and low ENG, but...
04 - Tailed seedlings
04 - "Dual-spiked defence trees"
05 - Tailed seedlings, shiny seedlings (could be supers)
06 - "Flower tree", could be terraform-related
06 - Odd shaped tree with "eyes" on branches

Finally, a sony blog post:
Quote
   New units: A new plant will automate troop movements, while a new tree type helps terraform asteroids (both visually and to change the attributes of the seedlings grown on it)
    Improved gameplay: Including rebalanced levels, improved AI, and a new 2x game speed that works like a fast-forward button
    New collectibles: Ancient Artifacts add flavor to the universe, as well as full Trophy support, natch
    More music: Including 100 additional minutes of completely new music by ambient specialist Milieu (the OST is particularly gorgeous)
    Enhanced graphics: Smoother, faster visuals with much more environmental and color diversity
    Updated controls: Completely redone PS3-specific interface and controls



Hmm, I wanna know which functions will exist in the new version, so I can make a series of maps so people can play 'em right after DL.
Alex has already said - the bare minimum to make levels.

I should imagine AddAsteroidWithAttribs, AddSeedlings, AddTree, LevelUp, AddMine, MessageBox, WaitDialogue, Pause, Unpause, Quit, but very little else.


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Re: Future
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2011, 11:33:22 PM »
I guess there is much more than that, I'll make some maps now :D

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Re: Future
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2011, 07:08:34 AM »
I gonne buy this on psn!
but I guess I have not read well but I'd better ask to be sure xD
is there an way to make your map?

en just an idea : you make just your map on the pc save it .... and hmmm as Xxxx.file and put it on a usb
en inport it to your ps3 ingame of Eufloria? is that not possible? it just an idea?
so that it saved on your HDD of the ps3?
and if I read well you gone make a new version for pc, mac ect? but on a othere platform?

and also congratulations! that you made it for PSN
hmmmm

a Question : well there some new seeds in the game? i mean new type of seeds? :p

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Re: Future
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2011, 12:02:28 PM »
a Question : well there some new seeds in the game? i mean new type of seeds? :p

According to that trailer and its screenshots there are a A LOT of new seedlings/Flowers/Trees.
But . . . I am wondering, are they PSN exclusive? or will they eventually be included in the PC version?

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Re: Future
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2011, 04:19:54 AM »
Both hardwares get everything, as far as I know...

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Re: Future
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2011, 01:29:18 AM »
My thinking was that there's a lot of stuff people want to do that I'd never have time to do. And if the game were modifiable in a more open sense (i.e. source code available) then people could do that independently of me. Additionally there's an existing version of the game in which all these levels currently work.

I must admit, this is exactly what Introversion Software did with Darwinia/Multiwinia, and it was the best solution ever. They had been keeping in the dark about all the modding features and finally, after about half a decade they finally released the source code for purchase. They hadn't changed it or brought about any additional modding features whatsoever, but at least I was finally able to work on it how I desired, although I do suck at programming, so I had some help with another programmer to bring about what we wanted.

We also discovered a lot of under-the-hood stuff and fixed a ton of bugs on our end too. Seriously, I've never considered a source code for a game THAT much of a blessing.

Quote from: Alex
I totally see your point about working in the current version and actually I think that's a really important issue both for you guys and for us. In the long term it will probably be better to have a reasonably modifiable version out and ditch the idea of the free classic version.

Curious, for a beta "port" on the PC, would you consider allowing beta testers to try out the PSN-to-PC version as an alternated version while you guys work hard to get the PSN version ready and convert it to a moddable PC version?

Considering it would be a beta, that would clearly signify to me that there's probably not going to be a lot of flexibility and that we would essentially be testing a ported version of the PSN game, just on PC.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 01:37:04 AM by Major Cooke »

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Re: Future
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2011, 08:25:38 PM »
We'll definitely be running a closed beta for PC users yeah.

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Re: Future
« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2011, 01:05:34 AM »
We'll definitely be running a closed beta for PC users yeah.

Ooh!

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Re: Future
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2011, 08:42:28 AM »
“Ooh!” #2 :-D (this goes for Windows, OS X, iOS)

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Re: Future
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2011, 05:28:50 AM »
We'll definitely be running a closed beta for PC users yeah.

Well hot sour apples! I'd love to try it out!

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Re: Future
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2012, 12:32:19 AM »
Any news on a Mac OS X release?

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Re: Future
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2012, 07:27:18 AM »
god dame i cant wait

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Re: Future
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2012, 09:20:08 PM »
Check out this overly cool video of Eufloria HD for iPad

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Re: Future
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2012, 01:25:27 AM »
So are you beta testers sworn to secrecy or can you tell those of us that have bought the game what's new? I mean, what are those rotating molecule-things?

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Re: Future
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2012, 10:37:25 AM »
Oh. I never saw an NDA, but I’d rather not open my mouth too wide before getting an OK from Alex or Rudolf resp. before it’s officially released … but I’m sure I may say it really is a rotating thingie ;D

And I’m sure I may also tell you that it’s FUN FUN FUN and SOOOO BEAUTIFUL, and there are quite a few new features you’ll all love, and the music is BEAUTIFUL, too.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 10:40:40 AM by Bonobo »

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Re: Future
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2012, 05:22:21 AM »
There are a few little bits that aren't in the PS3 version, but by and large what you'll see is in the PS3 version.

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Re: Future
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2012, 07:46:35 PM »
Except that there is a new play mode coming in the first update. :-)

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Re: Future
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2012, 01:25:16 AM »
I hate to nag, but any idea when that will be?

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Re: Future
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2012, 08:08:30 PM »
When will it be?

Erm, well, we're in the submission process with Apple right now so hopefully we'll be approved some time this month.

Keep your fingers (and toes) crossed.


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Re: Future
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2012, 01:51:10 AM »
Hang on a sec. You know this...how? Are you mark from Tuna?

Anyway, I meant the PC update, though that wasn't all that clear.

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Re: Future
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2012, 02:52:09 AM »
Alex and re: PC - Rudolf will have to answer that one!

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Re: Future
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2012, 03:15:32 AM »
We got dates wrong before, so I dare not say. But technically we are over 95% there.
Thing is, with our tiny teams (even with Tuna helping us) it is still a very limited amount of bandwith to do the 1000 things we want to do.

We are getting there though, and there will be some surprises I reckon. Not meant to be a tease, just saying we only want to release when it is REALLY good.

:-)

R

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Re: Future
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2012, 05:14:08 AM »
Ah, okay.

For some reason I assumed that you were not Alex - I was taking Alex (May) and Alex (you) and for some reason thinking you were the same person. No evidence for it, just assuming. Well, you know what they say...

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Re: Future
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2012, 10:44:20 AM »
Wait, so you've already chosen beta testers?

And when you're talking about this article here: http://www.eufloria-game.com/blog/?p=432

When you say here:

Quote
The initial release and update will be by far the most comprehensive and enjoyable release of Eufloria to date. And the price will be pretty darn reasonable. (I am not biased! Honestly!)

There is also additional content planned or lined up for the first update, including a new Ambient Mode, that is more about nurturing and growing, relaxing and playing with the new terraforming mechanic. (Yes, you can terraform stuff)

I take it you mean the PC version as well, right? Right??? O.o;

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Re: Future
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2012, 10:34:32 PM »
We haven't chosen beta testers yet, a call will go out when we are at that stage :-)
Most of the good stuff wil also arrive on PC, where it makes sense.

The game is rather different from the very first version waaaaay back, just after the birth of the internet. (well, a few years ago)

R

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Re: Future
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2012, 07:54:07 AM »
Oh. But I take it you still mean to release the PC version update as well as the iFloria edition, yes? I'm just double checking.

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Re: Future
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2012, 10:31:37 PM »
Yes, but not simultaneously. :-)

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Re: Future
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2012, 07:24:39 AM »
Oooh. But still in February, or later?

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Re: Future
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2012, 04:02:40 PM »
I’m sure it will take quite some more time, if it shall be done thoroughly, especially since, IIRC, the iPhone version is to be done before.

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Re: Future
« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2012, 11:16:29 PM »
Not sure about timings atm, mega hectic here...
Hang in there.

How are people enjoying the Free giveaways btw?

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Re: Future
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2012, 12:19:31 AM »
Free Giveaways? Where? :o

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Re: Future
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2012, 12:30:09 AM »
Answering my own question: http://www.eufloria-game.com/news.php

Answering yours: Thanks, nice, but I don’t need visit cards, downloaded »The Mother Tree« audio file though, thanks :)

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Re: Future
« Reply #80 on: February 10, 2012, 02:57:13 AM »
Still not seeing any news of an OS X release. I just bought the iPad release and am enjoying it thoroughly. Would like this on my laptop at some point.

Any news for OS X?

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Re: Future
« Reply #81 on: February 15, 2012, 02:46:49 AM »
Try not to be so disheartening, Bonobo. :(

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Re: Future
« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2012, 07:27:39 AM »
Oh, Major Cooke, I definitely didn’t mean to be disheartening. It’s perhaps because I’m a print media guy (among other things) and I’d always make my own. Don’t take it too serious ;)

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Re: Future
« Reply #83 on: May 04, 2012, 03:25:57 AM »
How about multiplayer?  8)

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Re: Future
« Reply #84 on: May 05, 2012, 11:37:15 AM »
Hate to break it to you but multiplayer is not going to happen as far as I recall. If it is planned though, it'll be one of the very last things they do.

Right now they're still working on that patch for the PC version (which I'm dying to hear ANYTHING about these days, since it's been 2 months of silence)

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Re: Future
« Reply #85 on: May 05, 2012, 07:20:12 PM »
IMO multiplayer is something they should prioritize much higher. It will add a lot to the game, because fighting AIs can get boring as they follow a strict pattern. It would also be fun to fight with and against many of the people on this forum :)

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Re: Future
« Reply #86 on: May 08, 2012, 11:29:01 PM »
Multiplayer is just not feasible without sacrificing tons of other high prioroty work.

Ambient mode is still to come, iPhone version, PC update (testing it todaya actually), and some super cool ports that I cant discuss yet. Also, there is a chance that a little spinoff game will be made, but that is not yet clear.

Major Cooke

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Re: Future
« Reply #87 on: May 14, 2012, 12:39:55 AM »
Holy crap, that sounds awesome. Super cool ports?

Ambient mode? What's that about?

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Re: Future
« Reply #88 on: May 14, 2012, 06:12:38 PM »
Ambient mode is a plaympde that is focused on nurturing plants and terraforming your asteroids, rather than conquest and combat per se.

You get a HEALING RAY :-D

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Re: Future
« Reply #89 on: May 14, 2012, 09:41:29 PM »
AWESOME! I've been looking forward to something of an ambient mode where one can grow and change their trees/seedlings!

themute88

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Re: Future
« Reply #90 on: June 27, 2012, 01:13:36 AM »
I have Eufloria for my ps3 and was wondering if Eufloria evolves, can I hope for updates or patches from PSN?  I just love it so much, any extra stuff for it would be cool.

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Re: Future
« Reply #91 on: June 28, 2012, 06:42:41 PM »
I guess Rudolf is the main person to ask but he's away at the moment.

I would like to be able to but it's more complicated to update for console platforms and that's not a version we've worked directly with (although we are developing all the new versions from the PS3 build).

As an aside, the big iPad and new iPhone version isn't far off now. We have another 10 days or so of code left then lots of testing. Main additions are iPhone, level progress saving when exiting the app, and retina display support. Also fixed some bugs and made the game run a bit faster, and hope to have it require a little less memory (to help iPad 1 owners).

Still working on the save but it's going ok so far!

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Re: Future
« Reply #92 on: June 28, 2012, 11:06:02 PM »
Well Im just glad you guys put up on PSN in the first place.  Regardless, I hope you have good luck in your coding. Thanks.

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Re: Future
« Reply #93 on: July 13, 2012, 11:55:44 PM »
Good day,

I'm really interested in knowing if there's development for this game when it comes to Windows Phone owners. I'd be more the interested in playing such a pleasant game on my Lumia 800.

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Re: Future
« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2012, 05:14:15 AM »
I'm sure we will consider something for whatever microsoft's next iteration on mobile is but not the current one. We need C++ support which I don't believe the current version supports and it's performed poorly too. Perhaps MS will get their act together in mobile one day.

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Re: Future
« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2012, 05:17:44 AM »
Ahahahahahahahahahahah!

Oh, you were serious. Carry on.

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Re: Future
« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2012, 01:04:44 PM »
I'm sure we will consider something for whatever microsoft's next iteration on mobile is but not the current one. We need C++ support which I don't believe the current version supports and it's performed poorly too. Perhaps MS will get their act together in mobile one day.

If that happens, will Windows 7.5 users be able to play it?

I'm sorry for the obvious questions, but I'm no developer and I have little idea what the issue is.

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Re: Future
« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2012, 05:39:16 PM »
Not as far as I know - if that's the current version. I could be wrong but afaik MS are overhauling their mobile side yet again.

There are two problems for developers. One is simply that sales are often really low, sometimes just hundreds when you need to do tens of thousands on mobile devices. The other is that they don't support the languages everyone else uses so you need to write something specifically for the device which is an awful lot of work. This is apparently going to change because developers have refused to play ball because it makes no sense. Unless MS pay for development anyway.

The iPad version was based on PS3 - same language. It still took the best part of a year (in man months) to do well. Porting that to a touchscreen phone is obviously much easier but not if we have to rewrite the entire game! That would take several months, time which could be spent covering more important platforms such as PC, Mac, etc, or working on new content/a future version.

We're crazy busy trying to cover iPhone and PC at the moment as it is, and some other stuff to ;) There is only so much time in the world so we have to pick and choose what we will both enjoy working on, what players want, and what will pay the bills.

That all said, we are looking at putting eufloria on quite a number of platforms including a future windows phone perhaps, and certainly the windows tablets. If they support C++, which almost everything does, that's the main thing! As we do that, we'll also gradually tweak the game too. We have a few minor things we'd like to add, such as some stats screens and rudolf has a new game mode to add too; the big iOS update includes some minor improvements as well as retina, iPhone, and game session saving.

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Re: Future
« Reply #98 on: July 19, 2012, 12:46:57 AM »
Oh man you guys are getting my blood pumping again! Eeep! I'm excited...

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Re: Future
« Reply #99 on: December 01, 2012, 12:35:55 PM »
So.... how close IS the PC version (with the HD features) .... and will it run on 8? >.> i haz high hopez?