Author Topic: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml  (Read 3756 times)

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Rudolf

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Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« on: August 25, 2010, 09:04:09 AM »
Euflroriati!

I need some volunteers to test a number of changes to the default.xml that make the game faster and snappier, plus differentiates the value of different seedling types and different unit types a bit better. The changes won't be implemented on their own, but will be supported by more fundamental changes to the game later on. Nonetheless I won't to start testing those tweaks I can make now. :-)

The tweaks need to be played on levels that use the default settings, but there are plenty of those so we should be able to get some good data.

Who is in the mood for this?

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 01:40:01 PM »
I’d like to test anything Euflorious.
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Pilchard123

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 01:47:51 PM »
What does/will this do exactly? I'll probably be able to test it, just wondering what it is.

Rudolf

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2010, 02:33:02 PM »
The game has a file called default.xml in the resources folder that affects a very large amount of ingame attributes and logic. I am tweaking this file so that it will change dozens of values in the game, like tree root growth speed, tree growth speed, min max attributes differences (A weak seedling will really be weak, while  a strong one will be really strong) flower health and speed, and so on. I have made a ton of adjustments basically to try to:

Make the game a bit less prone to stretches of time where nothing happens
Speed up gameplay in general
Make the game more strategic
Make the differences between seedlings and unit types more pronounced
Make different some units more useful than they have been

If you want to test the changes you should back up your existing default.xml and test the new one on levels that have few preloadded attributes. Those levels take the default attributes from this file.

Good examples are levels:
Arena level 3, 5, 7, 6
Level 23, 10, 11, 14, 24, 25

The game should play quite different. :-) (But not too different)
I attached the new default.xml, so if you wish you can test it. (BACK UP YOUR OLD ONE FIRST)
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Pilchard123

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 02:45:27 PM »
Oh, ok. DLing. Will tell you what I think...at some point. I have loads of stuff I'm working on atm. A Portal map series, Eufloria, currently playing Space Colony (I've only just got a copy! Now, after it's been around for seven years! Everywhere I saw a copy, I didn't have any money on me to buy it, and when I went back, it was gone. :( ). To cap it all, It's the start of the new academic year in a week or two, so I'm taken up then too. *sigh*

Bonobo

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 11:08:35 PM »
Uhm, I'm not sure:

(click to show/hide)

No idea about changes in enemy strategies.
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Rudolf

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2010, 11:10:14 AM »
I am not sure I follow :-)
Are these things you are suggesting or things that you have experienced while playing with this new default.xml?
The focus is to see how well my changes are working in regards to the goals I stated, namely:

Make the game a bit less prone to stretches of time where nothing happens
Speed up gameplay in general
Make the game more strategic
Make the differences between seedlings and unit types more pronounced
Make different some units more useful than they have been


There should be loads of that going on. The tree roots for example grow MUCH quicker, leading to less needless, waiting. Mines and flowers grow and fly much quicker so they are of more strategic use. Seedlings are much weaker at the lower end, yet stronger at the higher end, so sheer numbers don't always win. And so on for about 20 or so other tweaks. :-) I am not naming all tweaks on purpose as i want to get "pure" feedback on the gameplay as a whole.

Bug reports are of course welcome. :-)
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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 06:19:40 PM »
Mh… that was what I believe to have observed :-!

And, dang, since I often play in dev mode with some acceleration I didn’t really notice how much faster some things are. But yes, mines and flowers move and grow a LOT faster and trees are rooted faster.

Haven’t yet managed to win level “200” with these new settings :o
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Ytaker

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2010, 11:45:55 PM »
So far, my observations.

Level 10. Units move a lot faster. It's interesting. The big asteroid units, when killing my scouts, move about half the asteroid distance- if you add more features, you should make it so that seedlings can fight other seedlings from nearby asteroids if they happen to collide.

Growth is a lot faster, and it takes longer to take over a planet with a defence tree. Slows down the early game a bit. Def trees fire a tiny bit faster I think, and the trees grow faster.

Hm. Slight bug. You made the units be produced faster, and so because the enemy is stupid they often send small numbers of troops to your planet. Because your trees grow so fast, because units are produced so fast, it's very very hard for the stupid AI to pose a serious threat. So early game, there's less danger, less excitement. Humans are smart enough to estimate how many seedlings you need to take an enemy planet, the enemy is not.

Low energy seedlings seem to have a lower health. It makes the enemy a lot weaker, since their AI can't exploit this advantage. Their low energy seedlings die in droves. If they have the luck to be born on a high energy planet, they're effective, otherwise not. This means that for much of the game you face 0 challenge.

 It's very hard to take the large planets with a high energy, since they have an extremely high health, and regeneration. Time to mass a lot of troops.

Skirmish 6. Well, no chance of taking them early. Time for mass colonisation.

Incredibly easy. I built a few dysons, ignoring their feeble assaults that didn't take into account the snappy trees. I then crushed them with ease. The extra health and regeneration effectively removes any unit attrition, if managed well, and means you end up with an unstoppable force of high energy units.

Level 25. Very easy. Now I've worked out to go for high energy ones, it's obvious strength and speed are pretty useless, and the atttrition of your forces is essentially nill. Your planets are fortresses, so most of the time you can ignore assaults or send 20 seedlings to defend. Flowers are notably more useful here, since you can easily route them to a key planet.

Eve100 is pretty hard. The lack of any low energy ones is lucky for the computer, the ai attacks a lot, and the sheer number of enemies makes it hard to win, due to the fast spawn rate. These modifications essentially make any large scale battle into a slug fest. You can both produce troops very fast, move mines very fast, and so the lines just move back and forth. Super seedlings were notably more powerful here.

Rudolf

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2010, 10:09:11 AM »
Thanks!

Yeah the changes won't work well in isolation, the AI really needs to be be able to cope with it and the levels have not been adjusted to deal with it so are completely unbalanced.

Does it feel snappier though? Less pointless waiting and so on? (It does to me but I have some bias of course)


EDIT:
The idea is also to make some asteroids much more important than others. It is all a bit too samey at times where it is more about colinising tons of asteroids rather than colonising the right ones. I should realy try to create an optimised level but I am not sure if that is useful as there are major AI and gamemechanic updates in the works. I guess i can tweak the current AI to be much mnore aggressive and see if I can make it more appropriate with these settings, and then apply that to a few known levels.

Yeah... sounds like a plan really
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 10:18:53 AM by Rudolf »
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Rudolf

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2010, 10:21:17 AM »
Mh… that was what I believe to have observed :-!

And, dang, since I often play in dev mode with some acceleration I didn’t really notice how much faster some things are. But yes, mines and flowers move and grow a LOT faster and trees are rooted faster.

Haven’t yet managed to win level “200” with these new settings :o


Interesting. I expected several levels to become easier, but it is interesting to see which ones have become tougher. I guess those where you start with a disadvantage have that potential as you have less time to catch up and take advantage back...
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Ytaker

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2010, 03:01:35 AM »
Thanks!

Yeah the changes won't work well in isolation, the AI really needs to be be able to cope with it and the levels have not been adjusted to deal with it so are completely unbalanced.

Does it feel snappier though? Less pointless waiting and so on? (It does to me but I have some bias of course)

Two things. First, yeah, the game is much faster. Units are produced faster, you can always find reinforcements for a big battle, you can move mines and flowers a lot faster so they're more useful. You never have to wait for units, you can always continue fighting on.

But, because 2/3s of planets are utterly useless (strength and speed- you've upped the regeneration rate, so there's almost no attrition of troops if you use high energy) it doesn't feel faster a lot of the time. I'd recommend you lessen the health enhancement a bit. It's overbalanced. Or reduce regeneration.

EDIT:
The idea is also to make some asteroids much more important than others. It is all a bit too samey at times where it is more about colinising tons of asteroids rather than colonising the right ones. I should realy try to create an optimised level but I am not sure if that is useful as there are major AI and gamemechanic updates in the works. I guess i can tweak the current AI to be much mnore aggressive and see if I can make it more appropriate with these settings, and then apply that to a few known levels.

Yeah... sounds like a plan really

The asteroids are differentiated. Energy won. You've increased health to energy ratio a lot, more than doubled, a figure which is enhanced by regeneration, and weak seedlings are maybe half as strong. If a high energy has four times the health of an strength one, it's gonna win. Strength and speed can't be enhanced much more than 50% in your mod.

Plus, now I pretty much avoid weak planets, since they are utterly useless.

Having a more aggressive AI would make it harder, but the ai has fundemental disadvantages that this mod enhances. Speed needs a major boost. As it is, all units are fast enough that speed is no longer than important. Strength is no longer effective against energy. I've even found that high energy troops aren't damaged much by mines.

You mentioned having some sort of global settings thing that would allow you to apply mods to everything. Maybe you could do that with the overhaul? Have an easy, medium, and hard AI. And an insane one, which would be annik's.

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2010, 07:00:50 AM »
Yeah I agree the health attribute has taken over too much. :-)
It is interesting how much change can be affected with simple logic tweaks.

I am going to do a second draft of this overhaul soon, probably this week. The global mod thing isnot going to appear in the short term, but might become a factor later on. There are other big factors like AI that will play a role, and some features/additions that I can't anounce yet, so there is more to take into account. I will tweak what I can for now though.

The health/speed/strength balance is REALLY hard to get right, but I am sure I can get something decent in place that will still play a lot faster and more strategic than the current commercial version. Will see what I can do about the existing AI as well.

Good fun this. :-)

The feedback is essential. Much appreciated all of you.
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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2010, 02:18:02 PM »
I don't know whether this is anything to do with the default.xml update, but level 11 crashes now. I'm not sure where (it's when you take a certain asteroid fairly early on, sort of up-left of the start, I think), because my dad noticed it, not me. Other than that, what other people have said.

Vaguely related to updates: Mines are annoying when you fight one-on-one. Both explode, even when one is far superior to the other in all aspects. It did this before, but could it be changed?

Also, flowers seem to be less frequent for the player than they were before, though my dad does seem to believe THIS.

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Re: Snappier Eufloria Default.xml
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2010, 03:28:45 PM »
Right, here is a new and improved default.xml. Feedback taken into account and I sped up AI decisionmaking and proactiveness to a fair degree.


NOTE: This does not make the AI smarter, just less tardy :-)
NOTE 2: All the tweaks in this file are most noticeable on levels that have the least number of bespoke setting in their LUA file. So the levels I indicated earlier are best to test this on.
You can also tweak some yourself. So if a level has a lobals.AI.GraceTimer=(60) then the AI waits 60 seconds before it starts acting. Feel free to lower that value or to delete it so the one in the default.xml becomes active.
Note 3: Make backups!! :_D
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