Author Topic: Day & Night (level)  (Read 40963 times)

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lecutus88

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Re: Day & Night (level)
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2010, 05:21:25 AM »
Believe it or not I did this on my second attempt, but haven't been brave enough to try it again in case my victory was exposed a luck rather than skill!   I found the best way was to concentrate on growth trees instead of defence (but keep one defence per asteroid).  Also, plant growth trees first so that they can begin producing asap.   As a swarm builds, you have two choices.  If your defenders outnumber the attackers, stay put and demolish them as they enter the atmosphere.  If not, shrink back, wait until they take the asteroid and then retake as soon as they leave.  All the while, bring the seeds being produced from the other asteroids to the one you were exiled to.

It's this ebb and flow that worked for me, anyway!  As I say, it could have been luck.  A great map, and a credit to its author!

evoke

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Re: Day & Night (level)
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2010, 05:01:53 AM »
I have much enjoyed this map, and played with a variety of strategies and loses exploring the AI behavoir and experimenting with different starts and styles.

I do think the map could be much improved in the dimension of experience/enjoyment, simply by including a large starting text explanation, to the effect that this is a puzzle map, and that the AI here is a distinctly hyperlogical creature.  Advise the player of these two key things, and to experiment with nonstandard solution styles, and a more enjoyable response will arise to being stymied at first by the AI swarming / numerical advantage / ebb-flow.

To be clear, it's a good map and AI.  As a programmer, though of no LUA experience, I can recognize care and quality.  Like fluffy (have played these 2 thus far), one can see each map and AI furthering the art of the possible and introducing intelligence and features.

Human players tend to think that better AI, or carefully coded AI, means an AI that more closely approximates what a human strategist might do, and then they cry Unfair!! and there's tearing up at the opera house.  It can mean instead, as it does here imho, that a hyperlogical AI deploys some seemingly overwhelming advantage(s) in particular and well-defined ways, that refute a majority of standard tactics and counterreplies while having exposure to a weakness or puzzle-solution, so to speak.

-evoke

edit: Not sure if this would be attractive to you, but naming the level 'day and night puzzle' might convey as well.  It probably depends on one's philosophy and disposition to what constitutes a puzzle, and whether players should or should not be benevolently apprised or discover the nature of a level for themselves.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 05:04:53 AM by evoke »

annikk.exe

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Re: Day & Night (level)
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2010, 07:42:30 AM »
Thanks for the awesome feedback!  :>  Yes, the AI is designed to counter typical human tactics, it's also designed to recognise when the player has a large swarm and will gather up more seeds or attack somewhere else rather than just suiciding.
I put on the description that it has "Highly aggressive supplemental AI for handling large scale swarming behaviour", I think that's enough of an explanation.. :>  I prefer to keep the ingame text to a minimum because I think people find it intrusive, especially when they play a level over and over.  Did you notice that the introduction text doesn't appear immedietely when you enter the game?  It gives you a few seconds to have a look around and maybe make some initial orders before it comes up.  I think that is nicer.  :>
Dunno about changing the name.. :P  Fair comment though, I suppose there is a puzzle aspect to it.  Hopefully the code is complicated enough that not many people will be able to figure out what is happening just by reading it.. :P

wowo

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Re: Day & Night (level)
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2010, 01:27:31 AM »
Hi,

thanks a lot for this level!

Took me a couple of times to beat AI, quite entertaining.

Amazing to see that it is possible to improve dyson AI to such a level.

Blomljud

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Re: Day & Night (level)
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2012, 02:04:15 AM »

Still haven't beaten this one.
Great job on the night day cycles, it looks amazing!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 02:50:21 AM by Blomljud »